Buckdog

I find Mae so two-faced. It seems any chance she can get, she slams Layton who has been at the forefront of the environmental movement. Meanwhile, Mae was supporting Dion, even when a short time ago he was supporting intensity targets for industry, a scam to let overall emissions still grow. Of course, was already on record of putting caps on overall emissions.
I'm glad her supporters are getting angry. It also think this is why we have seen the party's popularity go down in the polls. Running in Central Nova is stupid, and going around saying 'ain't the liberals wonderful' is also stupid. I mean this is the liberal party that Kyoto and than let emissions grow by 30%.

If May keeps praising Dion,I may just vote Liberal instead of Green.Would it not be better to support a party that knows the ropes than one who does not.But then again I really think Lizzy is just sucking up to Dion so he will give her an easy ride against McKay.Then again I might just support the Dippers as they are even more sincere than the Minister Of the Environment Dion who really did nothing.Lizzy must have forgotten that!

It seems to me that she is being criticized for putting honesty ahead of partisanship.

Rob, I think that is a fair observation, but imagine if the shoe were on the other foot and Dion was praising May!! Liberals would be having a fit!!

Now, the question needs to be asked - is May proposing support for Dion if he should win a minority and she or one of hers gets a seat in the House?

Is there any likelyhood, that the Liberals and the Greens are interested in a merger to create the 'Green Liberals' - again I predict that lifelong Libs would have a fit.

I don't know what her strategy is, but speculation is a vibrant aspect of political addiction.

What's your take on it??

What exactly about the NDP environmental record is so worthy of support. I heard Layton talk about retrofitting businesses in a meeting in 2003, and haven't heard a peep since aside from his video about his Net Zero home. NDP provincial governments are hardly leaders in the environmental movement.

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Jan, it's spelled "May" like the month.

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Greyburr, I'd suspect she does realize that her best shot at winning against MacKay lives or dies with who the NDP and Liberals run against her, so obviously she knows the ropes if she's working on softening up Dion now.

Saskboy said, ""NDP provincial governments are hardly leaders in the environmental movement" - And Liberals are? And Tories are?
When Harper slashed the Energuide program, the Sask NDP kept the program going in this province and compeletely backfilled the federal contribution - Sask was the #1 generator of windpower in the nation (but I think PEI has just now gone ahead), as well as numerous other small community initiatives.

As a Saskatchewan resident, you should feel some
small pride in what we are doing.

And since you got me going, maybe check this as well as this.

"""NDP provincial governments are hardly leaders in the environmental movement" - And Liberals are? And Tories are?"

No, they aren't either, that's another reason why I'm voting Green.

I do have some "small" pride in what the NDP have done lately, but it's just baby steps and will stay on the pace of a crawl as long as they are in power.

Saskboy, I see the topic is federal politics, so here we are talking about federal leaders. So I am going to respond about Jack Layton since you seem to want to run down his environmental credentials.
Jack and Olivia completely retrofitted their house, increased the number of solar panels they have, espouse communal, multi-generational living, increased the house's natural lighting, greatly improved its hot water efficiencies etc. because of with their own commitment to the environment. Which inspired them to influence and enact actual, concrete, government policies and initiatives over the years. and over time, have contributed to greatly changing many Torontonians' (and others') attitudes towards the environment.
As former City Councillor Jack Layton did the following:

As Vice President (June 2000), then President (June 2001) of the Federation of Canadian Municipalities, he has worked to develop climate change response initiatives in Canadian Municipalities and to bring the homeless and housing issue forward as a national problem requiring new partnerships involving all levels of government and communities.

At City Hall, Jack's responsibilities included serving as the President of the unique Toronto Atmospheric Fund, Chair of the Environmental Task Force, Chair of the Council Strategy Committee for People Without Homes, Chair of the Cycling Committee, Vice Chair of Toronto Hydro.

Outside of his municipal involvement, Jack Layton is the principal of a United Nations' award winning public policy and environmental design firm known as the Green Catalyst Group Inc. Jack was also the C.E.O. of the Conservation Strategies Consortium, a partnership of major Canadian firms which developed public policy and programme designs for energy and water efficiency building retrofits in cities including the initiative knows as Toronto's Better Buildings Partnership.
As Co-chair and founder of the White Ribbon Campaign on Violence Against Women, Jack has worked to build an international movement involving men in support of the effort by women's organizations against men's violence.

Considering all Jack has done around the environment and has shown to be ahead of the curve here, makes me think that you are not as informed as you should be.

Jan, the problem is I don't trust Jack, or the NDP. Provincially they go against their supposed ideals, and federally I don't see why they'd be any different since the parties are integrated. Jack may have good intentions when it comes to the environment, but he's more about getting elected at any cost instead of sticking to his party's principles and what's best for the country. He'll run someone against May, even though she's the best chance of defeating MacKay in their riding. What will he accomplish by doing that? Another seat for the Conservatives.

There is no way the NDP would put the Canadian auto industry on the right track when it comes to the environment, because we know GM and Ford would rather pack up shop than innovate and produce vehicles that don't put us back into a dark age. If it's a choice between what's good for the environment, and what unions would support, we know who the NDP would side with, Jack included because he's about votes, not principles.

Saskboy, it's late here in Ontario, so this will be quick. May chose Central Nova where there is not a Green riding association, and in the 2006 election, the Green candidate got 124 total votes. On the other hand, the NDP came 2nd in that riding in both the 2004 and 2006 elections. In the last election Alexis Mcdonald came short of 3000 votes, so if we are talking her about insuring the chance of the most progressive party winning, these above facts speak louder than anything. May would have had a better chance of getting a seat if she had ran in Cape Bretin where her family live still, but she didn't want to run against a liberal. What gives here?
Even Green party members are dismayed by her choice, where some are saying that the defection this week of a long-time Green party member on Vancouver Island to run as a liberal candidate is because May kept saying the libs are ok. This was their 3rd best seat to perhaps win. Incidently, if we are just talking here about knocking off Lund, and progressives all working together, as May keeps on putting forth, well then they wouldn't be running a candidate at all, and here's why:
In this riding the NDP has the strongest momentum against a Conservative MP.
2000: 8.02% of the vote (fourth)
2004: 21.58% (third)
2006: 26.54% (second)
The Greens? 16.71% in 2004, 9.94% in 2006.
Liberals? 32.29% in 2000, 26.78% in 2004, 26.08% in 2006.

Although May says she wants to do politics differently, and hopes out loud that the Liberals and NDP won't field candidates, she has resistently stated that she's not in a position to help the Liberals in ridings such as Saanich-Gulf Islands (where Green morphed to Red) by not running candidates, since the Green is a bottom-up party that leaves decisions like that to the local riding associations.
I would say the hypocritical stance of "hoping" other parties won't run against you, which is bald faced undemocratic and offensive, while simultaneously saying her hands are tied on her end to do the same for others because of her "grassroots" party rules is absolute crap and she should be told quite bluntly by both the Liberals and NDP in the riding to get stuffed. I thought it was bad enough she recently pleaded for Lib and NDP volunteers to abandon their commitments and "help" her get elected.
In the past May has advocated voting for the candidate who has the best chance of defeating a conservative.

However in practice she advocates voting Green in Central Nova, even though the NDP came second in that riding. She advocates (in essence) voting Liberal in Saanich North, even though the NDP ran second in that riding. And she is running a high profile candidate in Edmonton Strathcona even though the NDP came second there and the candidate (Linda Duncan) has environmental credentials better than any candidate across the country.

The evidence is mounting that Elizabeth May is more interested in boosting the Liberals and keeping the NDP down than building the Greens. It's no wonder Green members are starting to get annoyed, where one has even blogged about the state of these affairs.
So who is bettered positioned here, with the above examples, to knock off conservatives in these ridings?

So far it seems like May is all for "strategic voting" but with her its all about helping make sure that New Democrats LOSE to Conservatives.
She comes across as an odd duck. She "claims" that her political idol is Tommy Douglas but then her entire time in politics seems to revolve around doing as much damage to the NDP as she can. I'm sure Tommy is rolling over in his grave at the thought of this behaviour from someone who supposedly idolizes him!

So after all this, well I don't trust Elizabeth May's judgement or her fake poor me show and let's work together because the only other party I see her working with is the Dion liberals.

The same Dion who voted with the Conservatives against labelling of GMO foods, against mandatory fuel efficiency in cars, against the protection of worker rights, against the implementation of Kyoto targets as Inter-Provincial Minister, and a Party that supports the export of cancer causing asbestos, nuclear power in the tar sands, NAFTA and deep integration with the U.S?... a Liberal Party that is only different from the Conservatives by how many degrees?

I trust Jack Layton. Federally, the NDP has been the only party who has voted against the Conservatives on every confidence motion. That cannot be said about the other 2 parties.

As for May, I was dismayed when as leader of the sierra club supported Dion's environment policy while they were a minority govt. Meanwhile, 10 other environmental groups in Canada were critical. I do not know what games she is playing, but it sure looks like she has a pretty funny way of showing all her chummy progressiveness.

It seems that you have a problem with the Sask NDP. That's fine, but I would appreciate it if you didn't paint all NDP with the same brush stroke.
I understand that you don't have problems being a provincial liberal. Well what about liberal inaction on the environment for the the last 13 years? That's ok, and you trust them? Like May your logic is inconsistent and is selective at best.

As for the auto industry, I suggest you go to the website for their environmental policy about the auto industry. I also know that every person working on those car lines would love to be making electric cars, better than hybrids. Workers are not part of the problem but want to be part of the solution. Heck, I'd love to own and drive a electric car and the auto workers would love to build them, too bad GM crunched them.

So finally, I am going to end this rant of a thread here. I need to go to work in the morning. This is the 'trust' test on leadership.

The fact is that 41% of the current NDP caucus is female and another fact is that enviromental organizations like Greenpeace etc... have supplied many NDP candidates and strategists and even Elizabeth May's own Sierra Club gave the NDP an almost perfect score on environmental policies in the last two elections.
So if you don't trust Jack who are also saying that you don't trust May's judgement on the NDP's environmental policies represented by a leader who has been championed the environmental movement for over 20 years.

I do have many problems with the SK NDP.

"but I would appreciate it if you didn't paint all NDP with the same brush stroke.
I understand that you don't have problems being a provincial liberal. Well what about liberal inaction on the environment for the the last 13 years?"

I didn't choose to link the provincial and federal NDP, they did that in their constitutions. You can't be a member of the provincial NDP without federal [as I understand it]. That's not the case with the SK Liberal party.

As to the rest of your comment I'll address another time.

"She "claims" that her political idol is Tommy Douglas but then her entire time in politics seems to revolve around doing as much damage to the NDP as she can. I'm sure Tommy is rolling over in his grave at the thought of this behaviour from someone who supposedly idolizes him!"

I think Tommy might be ashamed at the government using him as a mascot. At the very least he'd have strong words about making people wait so long for healthcare, that they might as well give up in some cases. And how the NDP loves to gut rural Saskatchewan would have made him cringe too. One doesn't have to admire the NDP to admire Tommy Douglas.

Maybe you have a point about Jack being on the side of energy efficiency, but that doesn't change my personal feeling that I just can't trust him. He gives off a vibe that tells me he doesn't mean a darn thing if it concerns something that doesn't go on within Toronto.

Thank goodness Jack and the Federal NDP "cleaned up the clean air act." Trust sure comes to mind here!

From Erin Sikora, "Make no mistake, this was an NDP victory The NDP are declaring victory for clean air in Canda, and rightly so. Bill C-30, The Clean Air Act, has been transformed from the joke that it once was into a real bill with real solutions. While the Liberals and the Tories did everything they could to delay this victory for clean air, the NDP held their ground and it paid off.

The NDP passed 11 out of 12 amendments including amendments to introduce a cap and trade carbon market, put a hard cap on greenhouse gas emissions from big polluters, and set short-, medium-, and long-term GHG targets."

Thank goodness Jack had all Canadians in mind, and just not Toronto.