Buckdog

btw, Stephan is spelled Stephane.

missing the "e"

Of course the existing leaders on the campaign trail don't want Elizabeth May to be on the debate because they don't want to be shown up!

Imagine being out-debated by a woman! Oh, the horror--especially for someone like Harper!

In recognition of his efforts to improve his english ... (and he has) I am anglicizing his name!

phhhff.

You leave off the important parts, of the biased CP article that says "further" for something that is nothing of the sort.

"May went further in subsequent interviews:

"Yes, Stephane Dion would like to see me in the House of Commons and I think that he should be prime minister," she said, adding with a laugh: "Of course, I'm my first choice for prime minister but he'd be very good as second choice."

May also vowed to defend Dion's record and character, calling him a man of "deep integrity and extraordinary character."

"I admire Stephane Dion enormously. ... I think it would be despicable to hide the truth from Canadians when I think Stephane Dion's a fine person."

May now says she's not endorsing Dion, just being realistic about her chances of winning the top job herself.

"I haven't endorsed Mr. Dion. I've consistently said that I am my first choice for prime minister," she said in an interview Tuesday. "

Oh, and if you don't approve this comment, I will reconsider participating on your blog. I have no respect for any blog that moderates comments to shape their message instead of to limit spam or libel.

Saskboy ... I provided the LINK so that the FULL article was provided ... I don't merely copy and ENTIRE article onto a blog post!

You are drinking WAY TOO MUCH coffee today or something because you are running around the blogosphere like a crazed green lunatic today!

What the hell is up with you???

Leftdog. Let's be serious.

Who would Jack Layton rather work with? A Liberal PMO? Or a Conservative PMO?

Let's be honest. Jack Latyon will not be elected Prime Minister of Canada's 40th Parliament.

Neither will Elizabeth May.

She's just putting it out there that she's ready to take on the Conservatives for the good of the country. She's just saying like it is: if she cannot be PM (which she won't be this time around) she'd rather see Dion in 24 Sussex than Harper. Wouldn't you? I guess not. I guess, you don't care who is the Prime Minister if it isn't Jack Layton. Right?

Jack Layton is concerned with getting as many members of parliament as possible from whatever ridings he can. Would you be happy with an NDP Official Opposition to a Conservative majority government? What if the numbers were the same as the 1993 election? Massive CPC majority. Small NDP official opposition? Is that an "effective" opposition? No, because it is a non-existent one. Because then it doesn't matter.

And that's the only way the NDP will ever be the official opposition: the demise of the LPC. But, you'll need the GPC to help take some of those votes away too. You'll need another split to move up the middle. Which, Layton doesn't want to work with and has said if May is at the debates - he won't be. How grown-up of him.

Dippers need to wake up and smell the coffee for ONCE in their political lives. They will be players in minority governments. That's it. Otherwise, they won't matter to the electorate. Why? Because they'll never be the Official Opposition.

The Greens see this and they recognize the fact that a minority Liberal government could have a coalition with the NDP and GPC to really move things forward. They know that a Harper government won't work with them. Are you willing to wake up to reality? I mean, really take a look at the situation and assess the best possible outcome for your party - and then try to achieve it? Are you willing to make compromises? To set partisanship aside at times?

Tommy Douglas did. So why won't Jack or the NDP grass-roots?

Oh and if you want to get into personal attacks my friend, I can throw as much crap at you as you'd like!! Chill.

Saskboy, let's try and play nice.

Leftdog, I'm sorry for kinda flipping out.

Go Riders?

Dylan ... my request to 'chill' wasn't directed at you. This has been a very combative day on Progressive Bloggers. People that I have grown to respect have gone off the deep end with attacks ... I am also totally guilty of retaliation.

I suppose my outrage at the consortiums' backtracking on their "rules" for the debate and pandering to pathetic threats from Harper, Layton and Duceppe that they'd rather "take their ball and go home" than debate the Greens on national television; is that I would expect this crap from Harper and Duceppe - not the NDP.

Every Dipper that I have met are staunch supporters of their party and many hate the thought of strategic voting (however, they'll reluctantly do it at times, like in 04.) And many of them are populists who want to see electoral reform and changes to make parliament a better reflection of votes cast. With Layton siding with the CPC and separatists on this issue, I am afraid that I cannot believe that electoral reform would ever be sought by the NDP if they had the chance. Which begs the question: what other fundamental principles of equality and social progress would Layton abandon?

Let's see - the Prime Minister of Canada and his Party with the MOST MP's in the House of Commons is blocking May's participation in the debate because Harper says he will not take part if she is there.

Then we have the Party with the 4th highest number of MP's in the House who DO qualify for the debate and who desperately want to get into it with Harper ... AND IT IS LAYTON WHO IS TAKING THE MOST HEAT FOR MAY'S DILEMA!

My former friend Saskboy has been going absolutely nuts today slamming Layton for May's problem (with hardly a mention about Harper ... remember him .. the Prime Minister with the largest party?)

No Dylan ... it is OBVIOUS TO ME AND OTHERS that this is an opportunity to attack Layton and that is Saskboy and others agenda.

Even you are doing it in a lesser way.

Yeah, I am criticizing Layton for May's "problem" - which is ultimately with the media consortium who I hope she wins a legal suit against.

What you forget was my statement that I expected this from Harper. This is total neo-Con, micromanagement, psycho-manipulation bullshit. Designed to send the message to the electorate that the GPC isn't a player in this election, or federal politics in general, and that they and their platform are not worth the time of the "big dogs" so why should it be worth the time of the voters?

That's Harper's style. And I'm not asking for Layton to give May directions to the debate, I'm wondering why he wouldn't debate her! Why he wouldn't want her there.

Duceppe's boycott even baffles me, imagine the French debate without Harper? He'd practically have the show! But, then again, he's also out to send the message that the Greens are fringe, and that their sitting MP - Blair Wilson - was never really representing Vancouver West-Sunshine Coast-Sea to Sky Country as a Green.

They're also saying the debate isn't worth our time if May is going to be there.

Is that really the kind of leader you support? It's the kind of leader the Blogging "Tories" would support - that's for sure. We all know that! But the Dippers? Really?

You didn't even include what I consider the most telling part of the article:
During the 2007 Green leadership contest, rival contender David Chernushenko accused May of having actually asked some Green candidates to consider withdrawing from the 2006 election to avoid splitting the centre-left vote and thus helping the Tories.

May rejected Chernushenko's characterization of her actions but acknowledged that she did speak to some Green candidates one week before the 2006 vote.

"I was calling them in desperation to say, `What could we do?' Could you for instance interest the Liberals if they were interested in talking about proportional representation? Was there room for a coalition there?" Emphasis added.

I submit that she got her wish and the Liberals and Greens are in fact a coalition now. I disagreed with the decision to exclude May from the debates but primarily on tactical grounds.

I agree with the argument that it would essentially allow the Liberals to have a tag team of two Liberal debaters. I just think that's something that it would be helpful for the voters to see in practice.

Jack wants to be in the debate as badly as May. Harper's threat to withdraw from the debate risks Jack's ability to confront Harper. Even Dion said that if Harper withdraws, he would withdraw as well. I repeat ... this so called 'scandal' is a contrived reason to attack the leader of the 4th largest party.

I was reminded of the fact today that in the election of 2006, only the New Democrats beat incumbent Conservatives.

I will also remind others here, that Dion is not squeaky clean here, as he said he would not participate in a leaders debate if Harper did not participate.

In European democracies, they actually have regulations around political party coalitions in electons - only one coalition partner gets to speak for the coalition. Of course, European democracies also have PR.

When May and Dion made their so public pact of setting up a collaboration, they exploited a loophole in our FPTP system of electing representatives, as we don't have rules of "fairness" when two parties team up and support each other.

I note here, that liberals and Greens are going after New Democrats and not after Harper.

I'm glad today that Layton, a) took on Harper about his new tax scheme for reducing oil costs (you know the environment which is suppose to be the most important issue); and

b) stood up to Harper about that stupid puffin cartoon.

You know all, Harper wants nothing better than to be seen "above the fray", and ensure that this election is not about important issues. eg. Puffin comes to mind

Jan, Saskboy and Dylan DON'T want to hear that Dion said he would not take part in the debate if Harper withdraws .... they have blinders on and simply want to attack Layton. Period.

Leftdog, what are you talking about? I acknowledged that on my blog, more than once, including minutes ago for your "final" comment.

And you admit that Layton was scared that Harper would pull out, so he did the cowardly thing and placated Harper for partisan reasons, instead of for fairness?

Cliff, will you then support me with a blog post calling for a Dion vs. May debate to be held this campaign? That will put to rest your silly (Conservative talking point, and Layton adopted) notion that May wouldn't beat Dion in a debate as well.

Duceppe said he only wanted his party, the Liberals, Conservatives and New Democrats at the debates.

Dion said he wouln't go if Harper wasn't there but wanted May to be included.

That leaves Layton and Harper as the only leaders who said they'd actively boycott the debates if the Greens were on stage. They threatened to bring down the debates. They stood in the way of May's participation.

Dion didn't. He, one can only conclude, doesn't think the debate is worthwhile unless everyone is there. But what can he do? Drag Harper and Layton?

Dion wants to debate. May wants to debate. Duceppe "prefers" that May isn't there. And Layton and Harper won't have any part of a debate inclusive of the Greens.

And Jan, you're right that the LPC and GPC are attacking Layton. But I remind you that the attacks are limited to this issue. The GPC has made it clear that bringing down the Conservatives, not winning NDP votes, is their main objective. That exposing the Harper government as flawed and bad for Canada is their goal. They want to win seats by convincing voters that they're the best party to fight for issues like the environment and social justice.

Saskboy, I have consistently said I think she should be in the main debates, albeit primarily because I think it would be devastating for her and the Greens to stand revealed for what they are.

A 'debate' between May and Dion would be the most pointless exercise imaginable. Akin to any other two members of the same party agreeing with each other on stage for an hour.

Which brings us back to my contention that the Greens and Libs are in fact a coalition and functionally each represent the Liberals and Stephane Dion in this election. You don't even attempt to refute this, simply - and rather hysterically - repeating that Harper says the same thing. Well I imagine Harper believes the world revolves around the sun too - is that reason for me to believe the opposite?

Argue the contention on its merits.

Much of this tempest in a teapot becomes irrelevant when you consider the debates incomprehensible timing; Sadly, I suspect that the viewing numbers that night will show the majority of Canadians will be watching the Biden/Palin Vice Presidential debate south of the border and this would have been the case with or without May.

If your neighbors dog pissed on your living room carpet you would be slightly annoyed. If a good friend that you respected pissed on your living room carpet you would be livid.

This is why Layton if taking so much heat over the debate.

Whatever!

'Liberal Leader Stéphane Dion has said he supported May’s inclusion — but wouldn’t attend the debate if Harper wasn’t there.'

The agenda here from you and others is very simple ... use this as an issue to attack Jack Layton - even though he and Dion said the exact same thing ...

How on earth is saying you won't come if someone else doesn't the same as saying you won't come if someone else DOES?

These things seem like opposites to me. One is saying "I refuse to have a debate if not everybody gets to present their views" the other is saying "I refuse to have a debate if everybody gets to present their views."

When Harper told the broadcast Consortium that he would NOT attend if May was included, Dion said the he would NOT attend if Harper withdrew. At that point, the broadcast consortium made their decision to exclude May.

This ongoing desire to hammer Layton (leader of the 4th largest party)as the 'reason' why May is 'out' is a calculated excuse to slam the NDP!
.

Well, who else would anyone hammer? Harper? Yea, like we didn't expect him to take this kind of stand.

I think Lonecrow said it best.

I'm not an NDP partisan but as a leftie I support them as much as I can. I am finding the NDP more and more irrelevant as it grows more and more partisan.

You all need to chill. yes it's bullshit and the all of the campaign leaders need to be slapped (with the exception of May) but all you guys are doing is make assumptions about what one another think and throwing dumb insults at each other. It is completely counter productive.

Don't just tell me about it ... go tell a couple of the Green/Lib bloggers who have been running around the blogsphere like lunatics for a couple of days now!!

Cliff, you simply dismiss the idea of a debate between May and Dion because you've played it out in your head how you envision it. Then you use your imagination to bolster your other point?

==

Leftdog, Jason is talking about of his authoritarian butt hole. I just hadn't seen it that's all. And I don't always bother leaving him comments because he's very slow to publish them and censors others.