Buckdog

There's this weird idea that because the NDP and Liberals are both left wing (to varying degrees) that they should support each other in order to better train their guns on the real opposition.

Codswallop. The closer two parties are in ideology the more vicious the battles between them, for they are fighting over the same voters.

Le's face it - the NDP are not going to steal a lot of votes from the tories. Liberal and Green supporters make a far richer hunting ground.

What? Do you know?

The Federal Liberals are working overtime to succeed Prime Minister Jack Layton and the Federal NDP government.

There can't be any flaw in that attack plan in order for there to be a Liberal government, can there?

On what planet does it seem like a good strategy, each and every day, to send your legions of Lib Bloggers out to attack ...... (wait for it .......) Jack Layton????
Cuz just maybe thats where the soft libsh*t voters are.

I see ... kinda like deciding what shoes to put on as you flee your burning house.

More voters go back and forth from Liberal to Tory than from NDP to Liberal ... at least in Ontario and some non-Montreal ridings in Quebec.

This is real rich coming from you leftdog, who continually heaps scorn upon Liberals and Greens.

The LPC isn't crumbling, and to say so would be idiotic. That's like predicting the end of Jack Layton's leadership due to his CPC supporting flip-floppery. Sure there are some disgruntled members, not all NDP MPs were behind the EI extension vote.

Get used to the nitpicking over how many times Jack voted WITH the Conservatives, cause it's been your tune for the last four years.

West of Ontario the votes go between the Conservatives and the NDP. Like it or not we don't vote Liberal very often. Something about them rubs us the wrong way.

Between them, the NDP and Greens won a juicy 25% of the vote in the last election. I'm sure many Liberals think they can shake some of that free.

With the lack of a major differentiator between the tories and Liberals ("We can do better" fails to inspire), and voters perhaps less willing to support fringe parties this time around due to "minority fatigue", it makes some strategic sense to go after the NDP.

Dylan, my friend, the Liberal Party can barely call itself a 'national' party any longer. They have NO seats in Alberta. One Seat in Saskatchewan. One seat in Manitoba. Their Quebec base is in shambles with outright warfare going on in public. Iffy has moved them to the right, (not smart) and after having backed Harper 79 times ... they are going mental over the one time that the New Democrats ensured that we do not go into another election.

And what is it with you guys who can't decide if you're Liberals or Greens?

The Liberal Party of Canada is on the verge of going the way of the Liberal Party of Saskatchewan. Don't believe me? Go read 'Politics of Defeat - The Liberal Party in Saskatchewan' by Wilson. Iffy is making all of the same mistakes that the Liberals made in Saskatchewan resulting in being a party in name only. In the last two by-elections in Saskatchewan, The Greens won a higher percentage of the vote than the Liberals.

Sure, because Iffy is so attractive to progressive voters - war monger who is into torture lite - he's such as progressive alternative cause he is in awe of the tarsands.
anyway, how's that lib confidence motion coming - LOL - how's it going in Quebec.
Libs would shit their bricks if the NDP switched and voted for your confidence motion.

This is real rich coming from you leftdog, who continually heaps scorn upon Liberals and Greens.

No kidding. The front page of Progressive Bloggers has become unreadable with all of BD's Liberal bashing posts.

Talk about a one sided observation Ti-guy! The Lib bloggers have been on a non-stop coordinated assault against Layton for 2 weeks! What 'Progressive bloggers' front page have you been reading?????

P.S. in political terms it's called 'push back' ... clearly Liberals can dish it out but simply can't take it.

Ti-guy .. can you repost your last comment with the statistics. I hit 'publish' so it would post on this thread, but it is not there. Apologies - can you resubmit??
LD.

The Lib bloggers have been on a non-stop coordinated assault against Layton for 2 weeks!

Of the bloggers BD mentions, Liberal blog posts addressing NDP, past week period (Sept. 21-28):

BC'er in Toronto: 1
BigCitylib: 1
Far and Wide: 0
Bowie's Blog: 0

For comparison: Number of posts at Accidental Deliberations, addressing Liberals, same period: 15. Buckdog: 9.

...Don't worry if you lose it again. I have it saved. ;)

Ti-guy .. before I retort, sorry again about that. Normally I can recover a post even if I hit the wrong button ... but not this one ... anyway ... apologies once again.

Now back to sparring.

I think your stats are pretty unfair. I raised those 4 Lib bloggers as merely an example not as an exhaustive list. I would have had to add Liberal Video Depot, Scott's Diatribes, and MANY more Lib bloggers who have been on a 'slam Layton' exercise for weeks.

As far as Accidental Deliberations goes, his very fine blog is renowned for challenging Liberal thought, policy and actions. Coming as he does from Saskatchewan, he understands the failings and frailties of the Liberal Party.

No your stats are by no means, fair and balanced.

In real terms, one would suppose that should Liberals get back to blogging about the evils of Harper and his Conservative hordes, (rather than continuing a coordinated attack on Layton), thin skinned and weak kneed Lib bloggers may just find that New Democrats have less need to defend our Party and Leader and may, as well, go back about the business of fighting Evil! ;)

Well, if you come up with more authoritative numbers, be my guest.

And I didn't claim that either you or Accidental Deliberations were attacking the Liberals. Just talking about them an awful lot, and needless to say, not very charitably.

And saving the liberal leader's butt in his election suicidal mission.

Has any libs considered what would happen if the cons just happen to busy with shovels in the ground, constituency work, awol, sorry didn't hear that bell on Friday?

anyway, it's a brave front when a political party is blowing itself up in Quebec - where pictures of breakthrough went up in smoke.

You should also note that you asked Ti-Guy for stats from two weeks -- and he gave you stats from one. Oops.

Libs are below 30% and not coming back any time soon. There's palpable fear amongst the Libbloggers -- Steve V's tantrums are a particularly obvious sign.

My preferred analogy isn't to the SK Libs but to the UK Libs -- who fell into ruin for over a century (and counting) after failing to quell internal divisions and being squeezed by the Conservatives on the right and a surging Labour Party on the left.

The slams against Layton were so obviously coordinated, Blogging Dippers had no choice but to retort. Some of us are not timid.

Surely I understand that after having propped up Harper on 79 occasions, there was somewhat of an explosion of relief from Libs once Iffy decided to demonstrate some bravado. Fair ball. However, the degree and tone of the attacks on my camp simply can not be tolerated

Well said Adam!

You should also note that you asked Ti-Guy for stats from two weeks -- and he gave you stats from one. Oops.

I was being kind (...or lazy). Over two weeks, it's even more disgraceful.

Ti-guy, you're not trying to drum up a little sympathy for the Lib bloggers are you?? I agree totally with ADHR .. go over to Far and Wide and read some of the posts/comments there over the last while .. including fabrications about 'NDP Caucus splits' ...

you're not trying to drum up a little sympathy for the Lib bloggers are you??

No. I'm just tired of Screeching Dippers clogging up Progressive Bloggers.

One man's 'screech' is another man's fine glass of rum!

Ti-Guy, if you hate progressives being on ProgBlogs, go read LibBlogs or whatever and stick to your shallow pool of partisanship. Admit that sometimes the Liberals are wrong (and sometimes Layton and the NDP are too), and get over yourself. Otherwise you're not really adding anything to the discourse.

If the LPC can barely be called a national party, then what does that make the NDP? By your standards, only the CPC is a national party, if you're going to count up which party has a majority of seats across all regions (all but the Maritimes and Quebec).

Let's take a look at the pan-Canadian New Democrats: one seat in Quebec, which is a historical FIRST; none in Saskatchewan; 1 in Alberta; and 4 in all the Maritime provinces compared to 17 for the LPC and 9 for the CPC.

The LPC, NDP, and CPC each claim one of the territories, and while the NDP have more representation from British columbia the LPC in doubles the NDP seat count in Ontario.

Getting into a pissing contest about who represents the nation more, the LPC and NDP, is ridiculous.

What arguments are you proposing about the current make-up of parliament that is unique from, say, the 1984 and 88 election results? Whoda thought the Liberals would win in a landslide in 93 when, by all intents and purposes, the NDP had stood a greater ground against Mulroney on FTA? How popular was Chretien until the Campbell team shot themselves in the foot by making disparaging remarks about his physical stature? How does a party go from 43 seats to 9??? HOW?

How, in 1980, the Liberals had 147 seats; and then in 1984 they fell to 40? How could they only manage to double their seat count in 88, despite widespread disapproval for FTA? Furthermore, why hadn't the NDP replaced them as the official opposition in EITHER election? THEN! Then, the Reform party and destroys whatever ground the NDP had left in the West and see the NDP caucus go from 43 to 9.

Whether or not Dippers think they ought to be the official opposition, and therefore, the government in waiting, voters are not going to go that route. They'll vote Liberal.

I also do not think it is wise to compare Saskatchewan politics to the federal arena. In Saskatchewan, the Liberal party was largely replaced by the PC's during the Devine era and they never recovered. Sure, there are some PC's still around in Ssk. elections, but largely right-wing votes go to the Sask Party.

Lastly, I don't need to declare myself a "Liberal" or a "Green." I can be happy living as a non-partisan voter. Non-partisan, as in, holding no membership to one particular party at the time. I'm a Canadian who prefers his governments Liberal to Conservative and who'd like to see a Green in parliament someday.

And Jan, laughing at the Liberals in Quebec is like patting the Bloc on the back. Futhermore, how about the GPC sitting at 18% in BC with the NDP and Liberals being tied at 24? Where is that ground being gained? On Dippers.

Laugh now, Jan. Laugh now.