Buckdog

What I don't get about what Layton says is that if the registry is defeated, it's dead.. gone... kaput... pouf! How does anyone go about fixing it if it no longer exists? Once you send the old chugmobile to the junkyard and they squash it into a 1 metre cube, Canadian Tire can't do a brake job.

Cons are doing their damnedest to kill the registry.Does anyone think that those same Cons are going to resurrect it so that it can be fixed? Seems to me that once it's gone, it ain't comin' back. Everything I see coming from Layton seems oblivious to the finality of killing the registry.

We've tried to get the Libs to look at fixing this idiotic problem during THIS PARLIAMENT! The Libs said NO ... elect us and we will fix it as government ... kinda like how they were going to fix the 'cannibas' criminalization issue in the country. Bloody two-faced liars! ... (most of whom should be Conservatives anyway)!!!

I still can't see how you plan to fix it after it is completely scrapped.

The LPC and NDP have voted together on a few issues like the Kyoto implementation thing, the US war resisters deal, Kelowna implementation and others. The Harper government has refused to follow through on those majority parliament votes. Similarly, they've fought tooth and nail against the SCC on Khadr and Afghan detainee document disclosure.

I don't disagree that the Liberals are thirsty for power but that does not erase the fact that you can't fix a dead registry.

The New Dems approached Iggy in the spring to try and find a way to make changes (esp. to decriminalize failure to make timely annual registration renewals) but the LIBS refused ... they are playing games here ... you should be able to see through these Liberal shenanigans JimBobby!!

Liberal shenanigans or not, please tell me how the NDP plans to fix the registry once it no longer exists. This issue is not about the Liberals and their games. It's about the death of the long gun registry. I have yet to hear how something that is on the scrap heap can be fixed... by anyone.

The ones who are playing to win are the CPC. They want the registry scrapped and, by the look of things, they're going to get what they want. It seems like NDP distrust and disdain for the LPC is going to allow the CPC to get its way and kill the registry.

I've also heard the argument that this is a private member's bill; and therefore deserves to be a free vote. How many private member's bills get the CPC to buy them billboards, dedicated websites and whipped votes? This is a PMB in name only.

If NDP MPs want the registry dead and gone forever, then they should go ahead and vote to kill it. If, however, they want to improve it -- as Jack Layton says -- then they must allow it to survive long enough to be improved.

You keep dodging JB's point. How can you fix it once you've killed it? That's a very simple, straightforward question.

JimBobby I am going to cross post the same reply that I put on your site:

"I can't answer your question as you pose it because it unfairly ignores how we got to where we are. The Libs made this a 'yes/no' situation and you want a yes or a no from me on something that did not have to get as ugly as it has."

Leftdog, admit it. It's not that you "can't" answer JB's question, it's simply that you won't. Apparently because of something the Libs have done that offended you, you feel that JB, decidedly not a Liberal, isn't entitled to an honest answer.

He wants to discuss this thing on the merits, on a wholly non-partisan basis, but you can't get past the political aspect of those big bad Liberals.

Fortunately it seems that the great majority of NDP MPs aren't quite so apoplectic on this. If despite all this supposed Liberal perfidy they can vote to keep the registry, why is it you can't even discuss it?

"I still can't see how you plan to fix it after it is completely scrapped."

Well JB ... if you can't fix the 'Registry' why do you believe that you therefore have to walk away from fixing the 'issue' of long gun control in our society?

The Liberal Registry is a failure in the eyes of many, many Canadians .. (mostly because it made some normally law abiding citizens, criminals). However, I am convinced that those same law abiding citizens can tolerate other measures that could work to control long guns in our society.

Let me ask you (and Mound as well), are you SO tied to the existing Registry that you can't envision, imagine or contemplate any other ways of achieving the public safety that everyone wants by measures that control long guns??

Why your 'All' or 'nothing' approach?

The all or nothing approach is not mine. It is the reality of the vote before the HoC. Either MPs vote to keep the registry or they vote to scrap it. That's the choice being given by Hoeppner's bill and the choice that our MPs must make. There is no room at this time for a third way, a middle route. If we lose the registry, it's gone and will never return. If we keep it, there's some chance it could be modified.

As much as you may wish for an option other than keeping it or killing it, that option is not on the table.

I register my car. I register my domain names. I register my dogs.

If I were to get caught driving an unregistered car on the public highways, I would be convicted of a crime. Yet, in the early days of motoring, licensing and registration were not required for horseless carriages. As we became aware that registration could be useful in regulating traffic, maintaining vehicle standards and enhancing public safety, we decided that motor vehicles must be registered. Ditto power boats.

It doesn't matter whether or not the driver of an unregistered vehicle drives safely and obeys all traffic laws. If he fails to register the vehicle is not a law abiding Canadian.

When new laws are enacted by a democratically elected government, it is incumbent upon citizens to obey those laws. Otherwise, they are correctly designated as criminals.

By allowing gun owners an "amnesty" whereby they are not prosecuted for failing to register their firearms, the Harper government has, in effect, fostered a disrespect for the law of the land. They have told Canadians that it is okay to ignore laws with which you disagree. The amnesty has also made the registry less accurate and therefore less effective. Then, after essentially sabotaging the registry and encouraging non-compliance, the anti-registry spokespersons tell us it's inaccurate and therefore useless.

The fact that the NRA, a powerful US lobby group, has been instrumental in fomenting anti-registry sentiment is cogent to this debate. Deep pocketed foreign gun lobbyists and a US "right to bear arms" attitude is surreptitiously permeating the dialogue. Feeling "hoodwinked"?

My attitude is hardly all or nothing. If there are legitimate concerns and the registry needs improvement, I am not against that. However, that improvement cannot happen to a dead registry and a dead registry is what we will have should Hoeppner's bill succeed.

Dylan ... you don't get it my friend. I am not comparing the Libs and the New Dems .. I am commenting on how the once great Liberal Party has declined steadily over the last number of years with no prospect of revitalization ... Read 'The Politics of Defeat - the History of the Liberal Party In Saskatchewan' if you want to know what I am talking about with the Federal Libs.

JimBobby said "If we lose the registry, it's gone and will never return."

NONSENSE! A future government (Liberal or Coalition) would be well within their right, if they wished, to introduce legislation that calls for a registry of long guns in the nation that citizens are required to declare. Why do you assume that if Harper killed it, an new incoming gov't could not use their majority mandate and say ... HOLD ON! We ARE going to have a Registry? Of course they could. Your premise is incorrect.