Buckdog

Isn't it par for the course with all those preacher types? They all preach and preach about our morals, but they all tend to live the most immoral lives themselves. I suppose you'd have to be a hypocrite to become an evangelist (must be part of their job description).

You're right. I mean look at Jim Bakker and the others. Not to forget the many Catholic priests who have dabbled in the 'flesh'.

Think about the misery these holy roller types cause young adolescents who are struggling with normal human hormonal drives, yet they are taught from the pulpit that they are SINNERS!! And that they are going to BURN IN HELL!!

If it is par for the course, then why do news outlets bother reporting it? I mean we are literally swimming in preachers and priests that are involved in similar scandals ... right?

No gross/false generalizations here folks. Nope, none at all.

And once again leftdog your grasp of Christian theology is ... wanting, and incomplete. We've had that discussion before.

Of the thousands and thousands of christian sects and groups that exist out there, which ones do you advocate are the true believers in your christian theology. They can't all be correct???

I was about to respond to your next generalization, that once again couldn't be more wrong, about the Westboro clan... but you seem to have changed your mind.

When I have more time I can tell you all about my "voodoo." Classy.

Adam - I am working on a better challenge to you involving such 'men of god' as Fred Phelps. I just need a bit more time because I am going out for the evening.

But in the meanwhile, sir, please answer the question I posed above, which of the fractured and fragmented sects of your religion is the 'correct' one or the one that has the 'truth'???

We'll get back to Rev Phelps when I get a chance.

No gross/false generalizations here folks. Nope, none at all.

And once again leftdog your grasp of Christian theology is ... wanting, and incomplete. We've had that discussion before.

Adam, you miss the point entirely. These clowns preach and moralize to us, and then when we find out that they are doing precisely what they claim is so evil, turn around and "beg forgiveness". They weep and wail and gnash their teeth - professing to be sorry for their "wicked ways", but oddly only seem to really be sorry that they got caught.

The word for such people is Hypocrite.

Sorry pal, it isn't about the rightness (or wrongness) of "christianity", it is about those who would elevate themselves above the rest of us while engaging in precisely the behaviour that they condemn so stridently.

(and yes, it does seem rather suspicious that we find out about these clowns on an amazingly regular basis - and don't get me started about the Catholic Church trying to cover up the activities of their pedophile priests)

leftdog, the basic truth of the gospel is unchanged no matter what denomination you are looking at. Jesus died on the cross for our sins and was resurrected 3 days later so that we may have eternal life.

Don't bother writing some a post about how all Christians, especially Christian leaders, are hypocrites/adulterers/gay haters and you hate them/us or whatever else you were going to say. Save it. The fact of the matter is that for every one example of a Christian that has done 'x' there are countless others who haven't. I just took issue with you painting all Christian leaders with the same brush.

If that weren't the case the media wouldn't bat an eye when something like this happened.

You sure are sensitive to any criticism, Adam. If you belief was solid, you would not feel so threatened by someone who feels that your 'truth' is a hodgepodge of historical nonsense.

You are entitled to your opinion leftdog, I have never once felt threatened by it.

And that's quite rich; you are criticizing me for having shakable faith? I did you a favour; I stopped you from making a ridiculous argument that probably would have went something like "you're a Christian, you must look up to Fred Phelps." Give me a break.

Grog:

Most of the pastors that I have come across say that they are human, a part of the fallen crowd. They are prone to sin just like anybody else. The point of the Bible, and the message in it is that restoration can't be gained by any acts that we ourselves do, rather, that we need Jesus to bridge the gap between God and ourselves.

I have never met a pastor who has claimed that he is perfect and has never sinned, and frankly if I did I wouldn't put much heed into what he said because he is dishonest.


"Sorry pal, it isn't about the rightness (or wrongness) of "christianity", it is about those who would elevate themselves above the rest of us while engaging in precisely the behaviour that they condemn so stridently."

Your statement doesn't follow logically. First you say they are elevating themselves above the rest of us, implying that they criticize the people that are "below" them; but then you say they condemn the behaviour (and not the person, which is more accurate).

It's the old adage, "hate the sin and not the sinner."

Final thought: maybe the reason that it seems like there are so many hypocrites in the church is because people like yourselves make such a big deal of it when an event such as this one does surface. By far, most churches/pastors/congregations have never had to deal with a sex scandal, believe it or not.

Hope this made sense, getting tired.

Adam said, "I stopped you from making a ridiculous argument that probably would have went something like "you're a Christian, you must look up to Fred Phelps." Give me a break."

Pretty presumptuous of you to know what I was thinking or what argument I was going to make - unless you have the gift of prophecy - which if you are a fundamentalist you may have such delusions.

My point is this - your truth is not my truth. I believe you are tied into a very narrow theological explanation of what life and the cosmos are all about. Christianity is such a conglomerated collection of theologies that it can give us a Mother Theresa and a Rev. Fred Phelps and who can say which one of them is right in the practice of their religion and who is not.

I challenge you for just one hour, to stop and deal with the possiblity that your truth is not so true and you have dedicated your life to believing in things that are NOT true.

Humans have always needed to have answers to the questions:
-who am I?
-why am I here?
-what happens when I die?

To answer those basic human questions, human societies throughout all history has created myths to explain. That is why religon has played such a major role in the life of the Egyptians, Greeks, Romans, Aztec, Mayans, Inca, Hindus, Buddhists, Muslims, Christians. Everybody wants to know what the hell this is all about.

In France, archaelologists have found early humanoid burial sites that show they carefully laid their dead to rest, placed red ochre on the body and placed flowers in the grave site with the remains.

Humans NEED reasons to explain what this is all about. You seem to have adopted the christian explanation and it seems to satisfy your need for answers.

Good for you. I am glad that you fully understand what the entire mind of god is all about and what the entire reason for creation, the universe, etc is all about.

Some of us are not as satisfied by simple formula 'religious truths'.

Have a nice day.

Hahahaha!!!

I know what you were going to say because of the preview that you gave me when you wrote a quick jab and then deleted it (but not quickly enough).

"Adam here is a great preacher that I am sure you admire for his Christian teachings" with a link to the wikipedia article on Fred Phelps. Isn't that what you wrote dog?

Christianity is a diverse religion because it is host to diverse groups of people. There are over 2 billion Christians walking the earth at this very moment; that's a third of mankind. Of course the teachings of Christ are going to be interpreted in different ways.

Your statements really aren't making sense to me though. First you are criticizing Christianity for giving rise to diverse teachings. Your examples were Mother Theresa and Phelps. But then you say you aren't happy with the "simple formula" that is Christianity. I don't follow.

You seem to think that the only way that I could possibly believe in Christianity is because I don't know enough to think otherwise. Well, that is simply not the case. I am just finishing my 7th year of post secondary education. Yeah, that's right 7 and will take about 11 by the time I'm done. All of those have been/will be at a secular university. I look at the things that I have learned about in physiology, anatomy, biology, microbiology, biochemistry, etc and concluded that there is no way that evolution alone is responsible for everything that I have learned about.

I have also looked into the historical person that is Jesus Christ. Ever notice how it seems like every year, usually right around Easter, there is another big news story about how Christianity is false. If it's not the Da Vinci Code, it's the gospel of Judas, or that titanic guy making false claims about finding the grave of Jesus. Ever notice how they are all thoroughly debunked also (that part usually gets a lot less press though)?

Anyways, the point is that yes, it does take faith to become a Christian; but that faith is not in conflict with reason.

Now, I have to study for a final so that I may further my intellect, or something like that.

Good day to you.

Okay you want to talk about the Rev. Fred Phelps ... okay let's talk about him. Which of the two of you are closer to the essential 'truth' of your common religion - You Adam, or the Rev. Fred Phelps??

"Okay you want to talk about the Rev. Fred Phelps ... okay let's talk about him."

I really don't remember saying that, unless you have "the gift of prophecy" too? Actually I don't want to give him the time of day; I have better things to do right now.

Why are you putting words into my mouth and then asking me silly questions?

When I lived in Phoenix, I had a friend, who was a call girl. She made an interesting observation that, whenever there was a fundamentalist Christian preachers convention in town, the call girls called their friends in Las Vegas and imported them, because there were not enough hookers in Phoenix to cover the increased traffic. Other types of conventions did not create such a need. Go figure.

I seem to recall that 'the spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak' ...
that is a great observation Tom.

(I actually have a lot of respect for my Christian friends ... not the Fred Phelps version but the Martin Luther King version).

We are all human, no one is without fallacy, no one. We shouldn't judge so harshley, you may be caught with your pants down too.
Besides is a preacher perfect no, he's human and feels lonely and sad and confused.
Just like a teacer, who is ment to teach values and lessons, but do we judge them as harshly for their personal mistakes no.
So do not judge the church or christianity by it's faulty leaders. There is alot of good that comes out of these places. Peoples lives are restored and renewed.
I hate religious arrogance, but I also believe in not judging others lest we be judged with the same measure.
Besides in the bible Jesus states, let he who is blameless cast the first stone. - and none threw a stone.
Have you ever tried to teach your kids tha swearing is bad and then you let it slip cause you stubbed a toe?
Have you ever looked at a women or man inappropriately after you just finished telling your daughter to dress more appropriatley.
You know what's best, you teach what's best but you are still human, get my drift?

Dawg, I have absolutely no problem with Christianity. I'm one of them, but one on the religious left, the ones that try to follow the example of Jesus. Part of following that example is exposing the hypocrisy of Pharisees and Saducees, the religious right.

Says Chandora:

I hate religious arrogance, but I also believe in not judging others lest we be judged with the same measure.

Newsflash - these bigots are the ones who stand in judgment over others - loudly condemning "immoral conduct". So when one gets caught out, they get measured by the ruler they created.

Live by the sword, die by the sword...

My favorite preacher was a guy who always wanted me to stay a slut. He figured he was gonna need me after his gift for healing people got rusty.
www.RuthieBlackNaked.bogspot.com