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Saturday, December 13, 2008 

The Conservative Party of Canada's DIRTY LITTLE SECRET - (its full of western separatists!)

Conservative leader Stephan Harper claims that he HATES separatists and wants nothing to do with them! .... Well, at least he says that about 'Quebec' separatists.

Nowhere in his rhetoric or tirades does he ever condemn or criticise the many 'western separatists' that infest his Conservative Party.

The recent troubles in Ottawa that saw the doors of Canada's Parliament locked, were a unique opportunity to observe certain extreme right wing factions of the Conservative Party of Canada. Notably, those who advocate 'western independence' while at the same time supporting the Conservative Party of Canada.

Is Harper inconsistent in his attacks on 'separatists'? Damn right he is! He is certainly not about to bite the hand that feeds him politically in parts of Western Canada. Harper has long been able to fuel hatred for the Liberal Party and New Democratic Party by tolerating and remaining silent on the more extreme sentiments of these separatist movements:

-Western Business And Taxpayers Association

-Separation Party Of Alberta

-Western Canada Concept

-Western Independence Party

The WBTA, (Western Business And Taxpayers Association) has regular meetings ... but adds this comment when you try to find out where and when their meetings occur ... "Please note note due to the number of high profile attendees at our organizational meetings not all requests to attend these meetings will be granted. Each request will be verified."

Western separatism remains the Conservative Party of Canada's dirty little secret. It is alive and well in the western provinces.

Harper goes to great length to attack Quebec separatists, but he is cognizant of and silent on the extreme separatists who attach themselves to his federal Conservative Party.



INTERESTING PHOTO: From the WBTA site, here is former Harper organizer and Canadian Alliance Calgary SE Constituency President, Erik Gregson (left) shaking hands with David Crutcher (right) a former leadership candidate with the Alberta Alliance Party and former President of the Calgary Egmont Constituency Alberta Progressive Conservatives, and currently an organizer for Western Business And Taxpayers Association.

Nice work, Leftdog. Again.

Or not so much.

If you're going to suggest that separatists have "infested" the Conservative party, you'd better be able to identify a few.

"you'd better be able to identify a few."

What's with the heavy handed fascista tone there Mr. asshole?

How about THIS identification from the profile of this WBTA organizer - go to the Fourth paragraph - third sentence of this .... "David is also a member of the federal Conservatives "

I will not be threatened by heavy handed right wing Conservative goons ... you are not welcome on my site. Do not come back.

Great post, Bucko.

How bad, I wonder, were the comments from PR? Did you need to censor them very much for straying from acceptable authorized approved content?
Could I assist you in perhaps having that person charged with criminal libel?
What ARE you views on free speech, leftdog? I must say I enjoy your site very much.

"Did you need to censor them very much ..."

PR's comments appear here intact win no censoring or editing. I referred to him as 'mr. asshole' as a term of endearment for his blogsite ... 'The Nexus of Assholery'.

Normally, I take exception to any comments where I am threatened or verbally abused. It's my site ... so I don't let insults on my own site ... you may feel free to insult me on yours site if you wish.

So .. that's my free speech policy.

The Western Independence Party of Saskatchewan is a Provincially registered party, not participating in Federal politics, with neither the ability nor the intention of sending separatist MP's to Ottawa.

Dana .. how convenient for you! You can all hold federal Conservative memberships and vote for Harper federally! What does sending MP's to Ottawa have to do with it? Yours is a political party, dedicated to breaking up the Dominion of Canada by separating one or more provinces from the nation?

Many would call you a traitor and your organization, treasonous!

My point in this post is that there are MANY 'separatists' in the Conservative Party of Canada. Harper says he hates separatists and I am challenging that he only hates 'Quebecois' separatists and that his silence on you Western separatists is hypocritical and intolerable!

It's not a question of convenience leftdog.
"What does sending MP's to Ottawa have to do with it?"
Avoiding the hypocrisy of working within the federal system to destroy it is first and foremost, followed closely by the questionable ethics of taking cash from _all_ federal taxpayers to finance what many would call treason.
As for "traitor", my primary loyalty lies with Saskatchewan rather than a Confederation designed to retain the monopoly of control of the West (as well as all of the Provinces and Territories) between Toronto and Ottawa?
Does yours?

Dana ... what you are doing and advocating is a slap in the face to EVERY Canadian soldier who fought and died in the Second World War. I would also bet that the Canadian troops in Afghanistan would also not think highly of someone who wants to break up Canada.

They used to hang traitors.

'Traitors' like Louis Riel?
"On 26 September 2007, Manitoba legislature passed a bill establishing a statutory holiday on the third Monday in February as Louis Riel Day, the same day some other provinces celebrate Family Day, beginning in 2008. The first Louis Riel Day was celebrated on 18 February 2008"

I wouldn't presume to know what is or is not a 'slap in the face' to Her Majestys Forces current and past, I've never served in the CF, unless you count being an army brat. The blood of my family is however soaked into places far from Saskatchewan; Vimy, Ortona, and the Sinai. They were all from Saskatchewan and my own father, a career non-com, has not called me out as a traitor or the WIPSK as treasonous.
Coming from an avowed leftist, it's your opinion(s) that may not resonate well with the mostly conservative leaning soldiers. And they swear an Oath of Allegiance to HRH, not a Confederation designed to etc....

Erik Gregson (left) shaking hands with David Crutcher

Oh, so that's where the Chandlerites headed after their attempt to subvert the Calgary Egmont constituency bombed.

Fascinating - I wonder where Chandler is hiding in that mess. Where Gregson and Crutcher appear, Chandler's usually not too far away.

Dana .. Louis Riel wasn't trying to break away from Canada, he was trying to get the Metis people into Canada! That is why he ran for and was elected 3 times to the House of Commons however, the racist Conservative government of the day wanted nothing to do with him or the Metis.

Bad example you are using, a western separatist trying to invoke the name of Louis Riel.

The only other instance of traitors "they" have hung is Kanao Inouye.

And Louis Riel is no longer considered a traitor, would you not agree?

The Federal Clarity Act requires a clear question on Independence, which can only be posed by a Provincial Legislature through a referendum and answered only by the people of that Province. There is no treason involved in the process of getting members of a Provincial Party elected to the Legislature in order to bring about that referendum required to commit the people of Saskatchewan to independence.

I don't recall seeing Prime Ministers of Canada often commenting one way or the other on internal Provincial politics, however he is well within his rights to comment on the Federal politicians and parties vowing to break up the country.

"And Louis Riel is no longer considered a traitor, would you not agree?" NOT SO .. a private Members Bill in Ottawa that asked to either expunge his criminal conviction or at minimum to pardon him was not allowed on the Order Paper by both Liberal and Conservative administrations.

"There is no treason involved in the process of getting members of a Provincial Party elected to the Legislature in order to bring about that referendum required to commit the people of Saskatchewan to independence."

Agreed ... BUT to me and my family, the 'treason' is in the actual fracturing and dissolution of the Nation of Canada.

One last point for you and your party, the very fact that your program and policies are exclusively of a Right Wing political perspective, you are excluding ANY centrist, or slightly left of centre supporters of independence who might otherwise look at your movement.

I am wondering why you have concluded that an independent WEST must be so Right wing. I was shocked at your program. There was ABSOLUTELY nothing that would make an independently minded person who currently supports the Liberals, New Democrats or Greens from even WANTING to take a further look at your program.

This is why I and others ares so suspicious of your motives ... your extreme Right wing bent!

So what you are saying is the Parliament of Canada will not formally exonerate Riel, no matter the wingedness of the party in power, even though a Federal Minister (a liberal MP)commemorated a statue erected in his honor, on the grounds of the Manitoba Legislature, in a Province that celebrates him with a statutory holiday. The HoC will not take this step and then you wonder why the West believes it has grievances?

You want to adhere to the letter of the law to refuse to acknowledge ("NOT SO") that Riel is not and was not a traitor, and then a few sentences later blithely ignore the letter of the law to define what is treason. That is inconsistent, whatever your political bend.

In response to your query about the right wing extremism you perceive in the WIPSK, I ask again; Does your primary loyalty lie with Saskatchewan or a Confederation designed to retain the monopoly of control of the West (as well as all of the Provinces and Territories) between Toronto and Ottawa?

"In response to your query about the right wing extremism you perceive in the WIPSK, I ask again; Does your primary loyalty lie with Saskatchewan or a Confederation designed to retain the monopoly of control of the West (as well as all of the Provinces and Territories) between Toronto and Ottawa?"

What the hell do Right Wing policies have to do with what you perceive as Eastern Canadian imperialism over the West!

I propose to you that Right wing politics is what you are all about .. not independence for the West! You dream of an imaginary Right Wing 'utopia' of some kind.

You don't even want to try and make Canada work!

When you have a disagreement with your spouse, do you try to work it out or do you immediately opt for divorce?

Again I say, you want western provinces to leave Canada because what you want is an extreme right wing nation.

It is no surprise to me that people not particularly interested in freedom are not interested in independence either. I think the farther an ideology moves left, away from the center, the less it is interested in the rights and freedoms of the individual, substituting for them the rights and freedoms of the group. Stick whatever label you like on it, it is collectivism and at it's core it must reject the individuals freedoms and rights.
Marxist, communist, socialist, even the greens and the democrats build political structures that mirror this yearning for the security of the group.
Conversely the farther to the right, the more the emphasis on the individual and that also reflects in the structures those 'right-wingers' would seek to create. Libertarians are out at the far end of this, wanting an absolute minimum of government.

It's not at all like a marriage.

Your ideology, which advocates a system where the 'rights and freedoms of the individual' supersede the common good, is the reason for most of our current economic problems in the world today.

The corruption on Wall Street that is destroying the world's economy is based on a system that blindly adheres to 'rights and freedoms of the individual' ... you know, the 'greed is good' crowd, who will lie cheat and steal to build their own bank accounts at the expense of working people.

Your system advocates a belief that if I want to have a business where I receive and bury nuclear waste on 'my property' ... well screw the environment of future generations, I have PROPERTY RIGHTS!

I bet you consider yourself a Christian. Seems to me that when Jesus said, 'that which you do to the least of my brothers, that you do unto me' spoke about caring for your fellow mankind.

Your ideology is based on 'self centered' economics.

When the prairies were settled by European farmers, it was 'barn raising' COOPERATIVE work of all the neighbors that put the roof on most of the newly constructed barns. Under your belief, is that not 'socialism' ... a collective and cooperative way to achieve a goal? The individual farmer would not have been able to do it himself.

You want independence because you are an extreme Right wing thinker and the fact that most Canadians are NOT drives you crazy! Hence you want to fracture the nation to try and carve out an area where you and your colleagues can create an ultra right wing economy.

No thanks! There are plenty of Latin American right wing dictatorships that you can move to and gouge your fellow mankind without interference, if that is what you want!

You confuse collectivism with community, leftdog. The neighbors of the farmer helped him raise his barn, not a social agency, not the government. Christians, mostly.

"'self centered' economics"
As opposed to what? 'Other centered' economics? Very few of us participate in the economy in order to impoverish ourselves.
Same applies to Provinces.

"'self centered' economics" as opposed to a society where fee enterprise practices and flourishes ALONGSIDE those things that are essential to the well being of the 'community' (key word here because you recognized its importance) are maintained publically.

I find that both economic extremes ... Right AND Left don't function well for the majority of the population - here are a couple of comparisons:

-Soviet communism was TERRIBLE because it tried to do have a Society where EVERYTHING would be State operated with NO private enterprise.

-Right wing Dictatorships (mostly seen in Latin America) are TERRIBLE because they try to maintain the society where EVERYTHING is privately operated and an 'unfettered free market' operates. This seems to work well ONLY for those who have wealth but provides subsistence poverty for the vast number of citizens.

Both are extreme. I believe in a society with a balance of both:
-private sector entrepreneurship within the scope of public regulation to prevent the worst abuses inherent to unfettered 'free markets' WITH public utilities, education, national security and health care entire society ... kind of what we have in Canada.

Your Party seems to find great difficulty with notions of a Balanced society and economy where BOTH Private and Public solutions are used to keep the society/economy flourishing. That bothers me .. scares me.

POSTSCRIPT:
However, Dana, I do admire your tenacity! You and your colleagues have done a lot of work with the policies, the website, the organization.

I respect your focus on doing this democratically by means of a political party.

I appreciate that leftdog, thanks.
Dana

(Private note to David M.)
Your bankrupt ideology is useless!!

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